I was recently asked about the difference between the Baptist and Presbyterian views of baptism. I wrote a series on this a couple of years ago, so I thought I would post briefly and point to it to make it easier to find. You can read the entire series here. However, you'll have to start at the bottom post and read the posts in reverse order. Read only the posts first, then if you want to read the comments, go back for those. The comments get really technical and will only confuse.
I also did a series answering the question "Why did you leave the Southern Baptist Church?". You can read that here.
To answer the baptism question briefly...
The real difference is this: Baptists do not believe their children are members of the covenant community, so they don't give them the sign. Presbyterians believe that they are members, so they do give them the sign. Who's right? Well, read the series linked above and you'll get my biblical argument for infant baptism and against the baptists.
Enjoy!
Friday, November 20, 2009
Monday, August 24, 2009
Friday, August 07, 2009
Here it comes!
Premier League Football starts on the 15th of August! See the link in the right hand column for more info.
Thursday, June 18, 2009
That's it.
Although there's some business left to conduct (committee of thanks, etc), for all intents and purposes, the 37 General Assembly is over. Feel free to comment with questions about anything I've reported. Thanks to those that were following along. I'm glad I could help!
Overture #6
We are now addressing the supplemental report of the committee with respect to #6 from earlier today.
The concern here is that we tighten up our constitution to protect our pastors and churches from legal action with regard to marriage between same sex couples. It was recommitted to the committee earlier because it was felt that the language of the overture did not adequately address what most felt to be a legitimate problem. By sending it back to the committee to perfect the language, we were able to avoid putting it off another year. The committee has proposed some very good amendments to the BCO in order to address the issue properly. We will vote momentarily.
The new recommendation of the committee is that the overture be affirmed with the stated amendments to the original overture. This will not grant constitutional authority to the section in question, but will provided the desired protection.
There was a question as to the approval process. Normally BCO changes must go down to the Presbyteries and come back next year. The Moderator ruled it does not in this case. The ruling of the moderator has been challenged and it will now go to a vote.
The chair was sustained. It now goes to a vote.
A 2/3 vote is required in order for the overture to pass.
There was a motion to recommit this to the committee.
After much debate, the question was called and defeated.
We are now debating the original question.
The committee's motion has passed with the required 2/3 majority.
The concern here is that we tighten up our constitution to protect our pastors and churches from legal action with regard to marriage between same sex couples. It was recommitted to the committee earlier because it was felt that the language of the overture did not adequately address what most felt to be a legitimate problem. By sending it back to the committee to perfect the language, we were able to avoid putting it off another year. The committee has proposed some very good amendments to the BCO in order to address the issue properly. We will vote momentarily.
The new recommendation of the committee is that the overture be affirmed with the stated amendments to the original overture. This will not grant constitutional authority to the section in question, but will provided the desired protection.
There was a question as to the approval process. Normally BCO changes must go down to the Presbyteries and come back next year. The Moderator ruled it does not in this case. The ruling of the moderator has been challenged and it will now go to a vote.
The chair was sustained. It now goes to a vote.
A 2/3 vote is required in order for the overture to pass.
There was a motion to recommit this to the committee.
After much debate, the question was called and defeated.
We are now debating the original question.
The committee's motion has passed with the required 2/3 majority.
Overture #5
We are now addressing Overture 5 which the committee recommends be answered with reference to the decision just made on #10.
This has passed and #5 is answered in the negative.
This has passed and #5 is answered in the negative.
Overtures 5 and 10
(I will update this post as things unfold)
The committee has recommended that #10 be answered in the negative.
David Coffin has moved that the report be approved.
EJ Nusbaum has made a motion that we receive the minority report.
Mr. Coffin is now speaking for the committee report against the minority report.
Mr. Nusbaum is now speaking for the minority report.
Mr. Coffin is now rebutting.
The matter is now open for floor debate.
An argument was made that the minority report is our of order. This was rejected by the moderator. [By the way, I should have reported that Brad Bradley recused himself from the chair for this debate since he has signed the minority report]
The question was called, but the moderator said it was out of order. 60 minutes is provided for floor debate and it cannot be ended early by calling the question. We have roughly ten more minutes of debate remaining (up to about 3 pm). However, the Assembly may vote more time.
Among the many speaking for and against the minority report, Brian Habig is currently arguing for the minority report.
Debate has now ended. Mr. Coffin is now making his closing argument.
We are now voting.
This is going to be close! Division has been called.
There will be a vote count.
The minority report has been rejected by the Assembly by a vote of 446 to 427. How's that for close!
We are now voting on the committee report. It has passed. There will not be a study committee.
The committee has recommended that #10 be answered in the negative.
David Coffin has moved that the report be approved.
EJ Nusbaum has made a motion that we receive the minority report.
Mr. Coffin is now speaking for the committee report against the minority report.
Mr. Nusbaum is now speaking for the minority report.
Mr. Coffin is now rebutting.
The matter is now open for floor debate.
An argument was made that the minority report is our of order. This was rejected by the moderator. [By the way, I should have reported that Brad Bradley recused himself from the chair for this debate since he has signed the minority report]
The question was called, but the moderator said it was out of order. 60 minutes is provided for floor debate and it cannot be ended early by calling the question. We have roughly ten more minutes of debate remaining (up to about 3 pm). However, the Assembly may vote more time.
Among the many speaking for and against the minority report, Brian Habig is currently arguing for the minority report.
Debate has now ended. Mr. Coffin is now making his closing argument.
We are now voting.
This is going to be close! Division has been called.
There will be a vote count.
The minority report has been rejected by the Assembly by a vote of 446 to 427. How's that for close!
We are now voting on the committee report. It has passed. There will not be a study committee.
Back in session
We are back in session and are approving the floor nominations to various committees.
Once we're done with this, we should return to overtures. I'm not sure if we'll take Overture 6 or 5 and 10 first.
The Minority Report re: Overture 10 reads as follows:
Recommended that the Assembly answer Overture 10 (as amended) in the affirmative. The amended overture, (with the amendments in bold, italics underlined [I'm just bolding and italicizing them in yellow- mtb]) is as follows:
Be it resolved that the 37th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in America authorize the Moderator to appoint a study committee representing the diversity of opinion within the PCA, including up to two advisory members who may be women, to study and report to the General Assembly in the form of a pastoral letter that the General Assembly could choose to commend to the presbyteries for their study. This pastoral letter should address the following questions:
1) What sorts of roles may women fill in the life of the church that are faithful to the Scriptures?
2) Strike
3) With respect to (1) above, what elements of organization and accountability to ordained leadership can be commended to PCA churches that are consistent with the BCO?
4) Strike
We are now swearing in the nominees, so overtures should be coming right up...
EDIT: Among the names on the minority report: Kevin Twit, Brad Bradley, Bryan Chapell, Jeffrey Meyers, David Clelland, and EJ Nusbaum.
Once we're done with this, we should return to overtures. I'm not sure if we'll take Overture 6 or 5 and 10 first.
The Minority Report re: Overture 10 reads as follows:
Recommended that the Assembly answer Overture 10 (as amended) in the affirmative. The amended overture, (with the amendments in bold, italics underlined [I'm just bolding and italicizing them in yellow- mtb]) is as follows:
Be it resolved that the 37th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in America authorize the Moderator to appoint a study committee representing the diversity of opinion within the PCA, including up to two advisory members who may be women, to study and report to the General Assembly in the form of a pastoral letter that the General Assembly could choose to commend to the presbyteries for their study. This pastoral letter should address the following questions:
1) What sorts of roles may women fill in the life of the church that are faithful to the Scriptures?
2) Strike
3) With respect to (1) above, what elements of organization and accountability to ordained leadership can be commended to PCA churches that are consistent with the BCO?
4) Strike
We are now swearing in the nominees, so overtures should be coming right up...
EDIT: Among the names on the minority report: Kevin Twit, Brad Bradley, Bryan Chapell, Jeffrey Meyers, David Clelland, and EJ Nusbaum.
Overture 18
The committee recommended that #18 be answered in the negative.
The motion was passed with only one comment.
By the way, Dr. Ryken of 10th Pres Philly is the Overtures committee chairman.
The motion was passed with only one comment.
By the way, Dr. Ryken of 10th Pres Philly is the Overtures committee chairman.
Overture 14
The committee recommended that #14 be answered in the negative.
The motion passed without discussion.
The motion passed without discussion.
Overture 13
The committee recommended that #13 be answered in the negative.
The motion was passed without discussion.
The motion was passed without discussion.
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