tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31095521.post5846988685763321376..comments2023-06-10T10:31:58.875-05:00Comments on Omnia ad Dei Gloriam: I am undone!Matthew Bradleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01843783322118909078noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31095521.post-53468443895437870832007-07-04T20:22:00.000-05:002007-07-04T20:22:00.000-05:00Great point Matt! I need more time to process and ...Great point Matt! I need more time to process and finish Hart's book.M. Jay Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14196144533530725736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31095521.post-21912675390279723662007-07-04T19:50:00.000-05:002007-07-04T19:50:00.000-05:00Jay,I think we are talking about two different thi...Jay,<BR/><BR/>I think we are talking about two different things. I don't think Hart is arguing that ecclesiology hasn't been central in the manner in which you point out above. However, if the form of our worship expresses our theological foundations (as lex orandi, lex credendi argues), then what does it mean that within the PCA (for starters) and even more so in the wider Presbyterian community, our worship is not only so scattered (in terms of form), but is in many ways patently unreformed? <BR/><BR/>Argued another way, corporate worship should be not only an adequate expression of our doctrine (I think there is a connection here between worshiping in truth, and allowing our worship to reflect our deeply held theological convictions), but it should be the closest thing to perfection that we achieve on this side of glory. By this, I mean that if we are all gathered together to express our doctrine (the center of which is the gospel), and we are doing this in spirit and truth (orthodoxy, -praxy, and -pathos), then all other aspects of the faith should flow out of this. What I am saying here makes more sense on the context of Hart's comments. He is arguing for proper worship as the unifying principle in the context of a reality in which culture has become the unifying principle for some, doctrine (in a bald sense) the unifying principle for others, and still others unified by the emotional aspects. If all of these were unified in a proper view of worship, then they would be free to explore these other areas in a proper balance, but they would still be unified with one another in worship.<BR/><BR/>Let me summarize this way: If we are one people, worshiping one God, in one Spirit and one truth, then is it proper that we are communicating disunity through our worship? I think Hart is suggesting that each of these other, traditional, unifying issues (culture, doctrine, and emotion) have developed to a point that they exclude one another in the eyes of those who espouse them. This is supported by the fact that those in each group worship separately and differently from one another. If they would unify on the issue of worship, then each of them could work out their pet issues in unity.<BR/><BR/>MattMatthew Bradleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01843783322118909078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31095521.post-72492804613561022442007-07-04T12:09:00.000-05:002007-07-04T12:09:00.000-05:00"His opening argument for the centrality of eccles..."His opening argument for the centrality of ecclesiology as the unifying principle not only among Reformed and Presbyterians, but potentially among a wider audience, has really struck a chord with me."<BR/><BR/>I am becoming more sympathetic to having a prescribed liturgy as <I>a</I> unifying principle among Christians. <BR/><BR/>However, I don't know if I would agree that ecclesiology has not always been a central part and unifying principle of Reformed churches. Regardless of liturgy Reformed churches have understood the church as having three marks: (1) Pure Gospel preaching, (2) Rightly observing the sacraments, (3) exercising church discipline. So, in working toward each of these ideals the Reformed church implicitly understands ecclesiology to be a unifying principle.<BR/><BR/>I suppose with regard to liturgy, the question is: what are the unifying principles, the fundamentals, that lie behind the liturgy itself. The Genevan liturgy included a central place for the Supper and gospel preaching (again in connection with the marks). <BR/><BR/>But I think ultimately the gospel is the unifying principle for Reformed churches. It is fundamental to all three marks.M. Jay Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14196144533530725736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31095521.post-25722032450321869702007-07-04T11:40:00.000-05:002007-07-04T11:40:00.000-05:00I like that chart. DTS did teach you something, hu...I like that chart. DTS did teach you something, huh?M. Jay Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14196144533530725736noreply@blogger.com